tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post8674966573237827855..comments2024-03-26T11:07:03.496-04:00Comments on Ed Notes Online: Shachtmanism: Unity Caucus, Know Your Rootsed notes onlinehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15018047869059226777noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post-80030087016486222782013-04-04T08:44:23.181-04:002013-04-04T08:44:23.181-04:00Oh, and since there were only about 5 or 6 Unity p...Oh, and since there were only about 5 or 6 Unity people there you pretty much are giving yourself away. let's see if I can jog my old memory though i think i got it.ed notes onlinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15018047869059226777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post-68680454752280102682013-04-04T08:42:24.364-04:002013-04-04T08:42:24.364-04:00YES I remember - Jan. 2009 at CUNY -- outcome of t...YES I remember - Jan. 2009 at CUNY -- outcome of the ATR rally that you guys tried to undercut with the wine and cheese party but ICE and TJC had nothing to do with sponsoring this event. I think there may have been some reps on the panel from various groups. ICE showed up just as Unity and New Action people did. As a matter of fact some of the disatisfactions with that panel led Angel and I to start putting people together in the group that became GEM.<br />The moderator was not in any of the groups at that time. I was in Mexico when that was being promoted and I kept asking who is behind it but never got a satisfactory answer and that caused some rifts. Once we got there it was clear that Behind it was Marjorie Stamberg and her new group at the time Class Struggle who I view as ultra left. The reject groups like MORE and ICE as being not Marxist enough. OR whatever term they are using. They have been openly critical of Chicago TU for not staying on strike until they won really big. Like forever. But you might as well have dreamed it because I don't view their views as coming from earth.<br />So yes you are right. Groups like class struggle don't have much of a following -- I can't name one UFT member other than Marjorie. They won;t support MORE and never did ICE though when they needed support for an issue they are always ready to ask us to promote for them. But I know the game -- try to brand the entire opposition as them. But they are not in it to win it but to use whatever forum to<br />On the vote last time, In fact since we had no interest in trolling for votes among retirees who we think should not vote or any way to reach fucntional people, and given the forces we had we concentrated on high school teachers and those results were 35% -- if new action weren't in this to distract or if NA had run with MORE Unity would be toast in the high schools. ed notes onlinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15018047869059226777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post-67666482389033951292013-04-02T10:53:40.985-04:002013-04-02T10:53:40.985-04:00Again, this forum ought to be reserved for the pur...Again, this forum ought to be reserved for the purposes of us personally insulting you and anyone associated with you. We would very much appreciate it if you would refrain from defending yourselves with facts and get back to the topic. Namely, when are you going to answer my unsubstantiated accusation about a MORE member I have not named? And why won't you accept 30 seconds at the DA as a substitute for debate?<br /><br />Let's stick to issues, please.Raving Lunaticnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post-49740413440109345202013-04-02T07:55:23.034-04:002013-04-02T07:55:23.034-04:00Admit to being batshit insane, mainly because I...Admit to being batshit insane, mainly because I'm answering you and even let your usual inane comments go through. But here is a suggestion. Just copy and paste this yourself. And of course I'm out of touch with the teaching force and have been in many ways for 20 years. But I guess you think people over 50 have no rights or that I should ignore them. And you should note that when Michael Fiorillo and I did a history of the UFT last July almost 60 people showed up, mostly young. You can see the video for yourself -- and we covered a lot of this territory. And I get emails from younger teachers who hunger for this history. So maybe far from a majority but I am not interested in the majority half of which will leave teaching and a quarter of what's left will gravitate out of the classroom. I'm interested in the younger teachers like the ones we have recruited to MORE. Just take a look at the elementary school slate and how long most of them have been teaching. That was the point I wanted to make -- there is a new generation of activists with hopefully some staying power. We'll see.ed notes onlinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15018047869059226777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post-14393003300286239692013-04-02T07:47:33.675-04:002013-04-02T07:47:33.675-04:00You're not right about the joint meeting. Not ...You're not right about the joint meeting. Not TJC at all. That was in Dec. 2003 at the first public meeting of ICE just a month after forming. TJC had no role in it. TJC people were not happy since they had declared they were running in October 2003 and put forth a presidential candidate which ICE people were not happy with. (I and others had attended some TJC meetings in Sept and Oct and were not happy with the narrowness of focus and that spurred the idea of ICE).<br />There were a few TJC people in the audience of about 50 or 60 people. What is interesting is that given that there were 3 groups out there -- TJC, New Action, and Marc Pessin's Progressive Action Caucus (I've left them off the story for now because even though ICE ran a joint slate with them ICE-PAC that was their last shot before fading) ICE was creating initial excitement in in fact over the next 3 years had some promise.<br />But let's deal with your rhetoric about who was at that meeting and what was said. In any open meeting everyone is welcome to speak. And of course the left and ultra left showed up for that and each one of them must give their spiel. Progressive Labor Party (Challenge newspaper) got involved with ICE (they were not exactly welcome in TJC which had its own rhetoric) and at every single meeting they each had to give their spiel which even today is pretty much the same. And they do that at MORE meetings too. Which doesn't make it bad but for people not used to the left POV that can be a turn off and begin to brand an organization. <br />At one point a PL person used to say at every meeting how she is a Communist and one woman I recruited to ICE looked at me in horror and never came back. I was pretty frustrated and told the PL person that and she stopped. Sometimes I don't know what people were thinking. Like I said -- the left talks to the left and either doesn't understand or doesn't give a crap where people may be coming from.<br />But your point about the many in the opposition is a good one. If it is only the hard core left then it goes nowhere. <br />ICE was an attempt to counter that -- note the word "Independent" in the name -- independent from the influence of a leftist organization pulling the strings. And we truly were -- James Eterno not a leftist and Jeff Kaufman took prominent roles in ICE and in fact became the voice of the group which of course turned off some leftists. And it was a balancing act as MORE is. So like I said -- if it tips one way or the other I will not spend much time going through this deja vu thing time and again.ed notes onlinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15018047869059226777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post-72137346838650104802013-04-02T07:40:15.077-04:002013-04-02T07:40:15.077-04:00I didnt dream it, but i cant swear which group spe...I didnt dream it, but i cant swear which group specifically hosted it. It was at the Graduate Center? And it was pathetic. But, since you are an expert at dream analysis, was the 8% showing in the last election also a figment of my imagination? You will never be a legitimate force as long as Trotsky continues to occupy one scintilla of space in your mind. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post-90137565702533718902013-04-02T05:51:36.674-04:002013-04-02T05:51:36.674-04:00There was an ICE-TJC event at a church around the ...There was an ICE-TJC event at a church around the time of the 2004 election. Guy from 5:01 pm has a good point about many in the opposition. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post-65217053949936194612013-04-02T00:03:48.056-04:002013-04-02T00:03:48.056-04:00You could not have gone to an ICE/TJC event since ...You could not have gone to an ICE/TJC event since there never was an ICE/TJC event. Each group met on its own and in fact there was little interaction other than briefly at election time. Maybe you dreamed it.ed notes onlinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15018047869059226777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post-68082346410913471422013-04-01T23:41:38.444-04:002013-04-01T23:41:38.444-04:00Norm, I gotta hand it to you with this piece. You...Norm, I gotta hand it to you with this piece. You should also post it on the MORE and ICE blogs.<br /><br />It really shows how crazy you are. I'd imagine anyone 50 or less would read this and think you were batshit insane. You're really out of touch with the teaching force.<br /><br />Go on, post this again and again!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post-1828550638427357302013-04-01T17:01:01.117-04:002013-04-01T17:01:01.117-04:00Thanks for the education. But to most of our membe...Thanks for the education. But to most of our members this is right up there with Sulla's proscriptions, in terms of relevance. I went to an ICE/TJC event years ago in disgust with Randi's dictatorship, but I knew it was a waste as soon as I heard all the old left claptrap about capitalist courts, proletarian classaes, and the like. My intuition was that the opposition was more about world revolution and less about Our Union. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post-6955628112067954822013-04-01T16:40:28.105-04:002013-04-01T16:40:28.105-04:00Literary critic and essayist Irving Howe started o...Literary critic and essayist Irving Howe started out as a Schachtmanite, and Shankar was connected with them through his affiliation with the Student League for Industrial Democracy at Columbia.<br /><br />The key takeaway and current relevance of all this is the continuing paper-thin claim of Social Democratic beliefs on the part of UFT/AFT leaders, while aligning themselves over the decades with stone Cold Warriors (even going so far as having involvement in the 9/11/73 fascist coup against the Allende government in Chile) and Austerians at home.<br /><br />That continues to this day, with Randi Weingarten's professed pwogwessive politics belied by her direct collaboration with education privatizers such as Gates and Broad.<br /><br />Another takeaway from the Schachtmanite heritage is the willingness to divide and destroy what you cannot control, and to be unscrupulous in internecine conflicts, using rumors and falsehoods to advance the Party Line.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com