tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post4359301181013912807..comments2024-03-26T11:07:03.496-04:00Comments on Ed Notes Online: Bailing Out the Fannies & Freddiesed notes onlinehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15018047869059226777noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post-41865755057302495542008-09-08T14:10:00.000-04:002008-09-08T14:10:00.000-04:00Socrates is always right no matter how much he con...Socrates is always right no matter how much he contradicts himself. Highly qualified? If a TFA - automatic.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, I am no big believer that a masters degree has much to do with being a good teacher. MA's in education were forced down our throats around 1969-70 as a way to get money in teachers' pockets - and to support ed grad schools. <BR/><BR/>I still think experience is the best way to learn how to teach but getting some in a supervised way is the key.ed notes onlinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15018047869059226777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post-36185058638196607952008-09-08T11:33:00.000-04:002008-09-08T11:33:00.000-04:00Socrates is right. It is difficult to find people...Socrates is right. It is difficult to find people with Masters Degrees. I believe it's only 8% of the population.<BR/>It's funny because New York State teacher certification supposedly requires a Masters. This would make sense as you would hope to bring in individuals who have completed this level of education to teach our children.<BR/>I guess New York City children don't count though, as they keep getting TFA teachers who don't have a Masters, nor are they encouraged to obtain one. So much for highly qualified.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post-37111291797519126512008-09-07T20:56:00.000-04:002008-09-07T20:56:00.000-04:00or the study that proved that the California study...or the study that proved that the California study was tainted and the one that said teacher quality was the most important factor. Since all research has too small a sample I say throw it all out which means the entire underpinning of the data driven accountability which is based on nothing should also be thrown out. <BR/><BR/>You're turning in circles.<BR/><BR/>Even if there was no proff about class size having suburbs with small classes and urban area with large ones is separete and unequal and academic apartheid spread by all you great fighters for civil rights.ed notes onlinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15018047869059226777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post-24823487101314152522008-09-07T18:07:00.000-04:002008-09-07T18:07:00.000-04:00and the small study of California schools that pro...and the small study of California schools that proved that it doesn't.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post-70873042683856556352008-09-07T17:47:00.000-04:002008-09-07T17:47:00.000-04:00Ahh, the usual escapism. When a study that supposd...Ahh, the usual escapism. When a study that supposdely showed TFA ina good light involved 30 teachers it was blasted all over and I don't think you thought that was too small a sample.<BR/>All research in ed is usually small- oh,except the Star study in Tenn which proved class size reduction works.ed notes onlinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15018047869059226777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post-29001594357741430062008-09-07T17:19:00.000-04:002008-09-07T17:19:00.000-04:00well, if you loaded them with TFA you might get th...well, if you loaded them with TFA you might get those results, but there aren't enough TFA to go around either.<BR/><BR/>Let me say it again: we can't study the effect of dilution on a system if the sample size is that small.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post-12948736184268649852008-09-07T16:44:00.000-04:002008-09-07T16:44:00.000-04:00"Would you prefer that they start seeing teachers ..."Would you prefer that they start seeing teachers as widget-making drones? Because that's what you can ramp up quickly - drones."<BR/><BR/>Jeez - exactly what is occurring with the 2 year TFA people. de-skilling the teachign profession. here's a deal - find the 30,000 TFA's and reduce class size.<BR/><BR/>And by the way - the 20 school idea is to satisfy the research on whether class size reduction works. Pick school randomly and load them up with TFAs' or whatever you can scrape up and I bet we results because the sheer numbers of personnel managed with some efficiency would raise the so-called talent level or at least maximize it.ed notes onlinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15018047869059226777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post-57607822757383734412008-09-07T16:19:00.000-04:002008-09-07T16:19:00.000-04:0020 schools in a city with over 1,000 schools still...20 schools in a city with over 1,000 schools still wouldn't address the dilution issue, Norm.<BR/><BR/>I ignored the analogy because it's silly and I didn't think you were serious. The answer is obvous: the reason the police, fire, and military ramp-ups don't worry about talent is that they don't think talent is as important in those fields. Fact is, it's more difficult to find a good teacher than a good cop or frontline marine, because teaching requires a higher skill set. To wit, you don't even need a college degree for most of those positions, whereas you need to have or be working on a masters to be a teacher. Are you aware, Norm, that it's easier to find people who don't have a college degree than it is to find people with masters degrees? I didn't respond to your analogy because it was apples-to-oranges. <BR/><BR/>Would you prefer that they start seeing teachers as widget-making drones? Because that's what you can ramp up quickly - drones. As you know, teaching is a highly-skilled endeavor, and as such, requires some more thoughtfulness in recruitment and selection than we'd be afforded under a massive class-size reduction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post-79531901557936661792008-09-07T12:54:00.000-04:002008-09-07T12:54:00.000-04:00If Cerf said we should have 80 in a class would be...If Cerf said we should have 80 in a class would be "right" - and I mean "right" - to you.<BR/><BR/>So why not 20 schools instead of 1? Think the old DOE couldn't have tried it with all the money they throw around? So what if there's "talent" dilution - really funny since as usual you ignore all the other analogies like police, fire, Iraq and all the industries that have to ramp up in a hurry seem to not spend a lot of time worrying about it.<BR/><BR/>We should have waited for 5 years to go into WWII until there was enough talent to build airplanes.ed notes onlinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15018047869059226777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post-86017746665184095702008-09-07T12:09:00.000-04:002008-09-07T12:09:00.000-04:00Cerf is right. Even doing such an experiment woul...Cerf is right. Even doing such an experiment would tell us nothing because the effect on one school could be positive but implemented across the system it would be negative, due to dilution of talent. Talent dilution wouldn't be a factor in one school, since there are certainly 20 teachers they could find to reduce class sizes in that school. But across a system, that's roughly 30,000 teachers. I don't see NYC coming up with 30,000 new teachers any time soon. TFA will have to REALLY ramp up!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33431390.post-28144264891902287992008-09-07T05:33:00.000-04:002008-09-07T05:33:00.000-04:00Class size will continue to be a major issue until...Class size will continue to be a major issue until some research is done to back up the teachers' wish to reduce the number of students in front of them. I have thirty desks and chairs in my room- they are always filled and it is actually not uncommon for me to have 32-34 students at the one time.Margaret Englishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11910776236752629334noreply@blogger.com