Before I even get into this issue, what pisses me off the most is how easy it is to keep spending billions on the war without a peep about pay fors from Dems and Republicans. Like where is Manchin, who strenuously objected to Medicare paying for my teeth, eyes and ears. Like we can't have Medicare for all because we can't pay for it but we can pay for endless arms to Ukraine.
Also - if you want to hear a rational discussion on Ukraine, check out the May 31 edition of Breaking Points where Krystal and Saagar get down to issues you never hear in mainstream media. They point out how easy it would be for the missiles we give Ukraine to find themselves landing on Russian territory. Don't forget the nukes. That Ukraine has a motive to keep us outraged and engaged. Must see on you tube: https://youtu.be/kfCMBF_72y0. And in this segment they talk about the possibility Putin has a terminal illness: https://youtu.be/f3FDlhJZegU
So here is an interchange I had after posting a Tiabbi comment on ICE list:
Matt Tiabbi: Putin the Apostate: We thought he would be our bastard. Then, he became his own bastard. Feb 28 ---
Response: Wow hard to read anything from Matt (Taibbi) after he laughed and dismissed an invasion into Russia. Sorry to knock down your hero there norm, but Matt and greenwald are the darlings of the right for a reason ....
The above interchange represents a split on the left over Ukraine and Putin. So let me state right out front, I am disgusted by the Putin invasion -- he is a right wing thug and this is Russian imperialism. Some on the left focus on American imperialism -- a very real thing -- and explain the rest of the world as reactions to what we do. Now this is not a simple discussion as there are real facts on both sides.
This is a quandary when you see the outrage of the invasion. As you will see below, the right wing Putinists and Orbanists have no compunction about saying let it be. Isolationists from the same strain that opposed our entering the war against Hitler.
This is a quandary when you see the outrage of the invasion. As you will see below, the right wing Putinists and Orbanists have no compunction about saying let it be. Isolationists from the same strain that opposed our entering the war against Hitler.
The left is more complicated. Remember, the Stalinists opposed our entering the war from the Soviet/Germany non-aggression pact of 1939 until Germany invaded them in June 1941, then suddenly switched gears. This was the major hit the Communist Party USA took -- exposing clearly how they functioned as agents of Stalin.
Here is a must listen historical frame of reference where artist Edwin Sorel recalls how his parents were Stalinists to the end -- True Believers.
Brian Lehrer interview with artist Edwin Sorel:https://www.wnyc.org/story/new-york-illustrators-personaland-politicallife/
[I WARNED YOU ABOUT THE LONG AND WINDING ROAD]
But there is the reality that the more we arm Ukraine the longer the war goes on and more people die. Our war hawks in both parties don't really care much about that as the goal is not to save Ukraine but to undermine Russia - plus keep up the enormous profits of the military industrial complex.
The reality is that if Ukraine ceded some territory, the war may end. The argument that Putin will keep taking is not crazy but without an open war with Russia - as we seem to be heading there -- that is the only choice. And let me point out that the entire Dem party is now the war party - while there is a Trump wing of the Republican party that is against us giving support.
Wednesday, June 1, 2022
GOOD MORNING, UKRAINE. I got a call from an old lefty ICEer who wanted to talk organizing. We avoided talking Ukraine because he reps a segment of the left that is vehemently opposed to Ukraine involvement. He and others from the old ICE crew put the blame on American imperialism and while condemning the Putin invasion, also justify it in some ways due to NATO expansion, the profit-making American war machine - military industrial complex, what they term as a 2014 CIA led coup in Ukraine and other factors.
Fact is, there's a lot of there there. The left has always seen the truth of the CIA in fomenting coups and FBI in disrupting the left. Die hard Stalinists claimed he had to create a buffer zone around the Soviet Union and even make a deal with Hitler because from the day of the 1917 Russian Revolution, there has been a cabal to kill off the Soviet Union. Is that 100 year old idea still operating -- like Bolsheviks may rise from the dead unless we put a dagger through the heart of the Russian state?
I've known this stuff since my history classes at Brooklyn College in the 60s when I had an anti-communist prof refugee from the Hungarian Revolution backed by the CIA but he was fair and had us read both sides -- I was shocked at the left defense of Stalin and didn't agree but it made me think.
The liberal Dems have always been anti-Russia even after the wall fell. Why push NATO to their borders? The size and the nukes of Russia kept up the aggression and encirclement. Imagine Russia missiles in Cuba? Oh, been there done that. How about Mexico? Would we invade Mexico? Oh, been there done that.
Have we claimed a sphere of influence since the 1820 Monroe Doctrine? Have you read the NYT stories of Haiti and our invasions and take-overs? If you complain about Putin invading Ukraine over supposed claims they have been there for centuries -- see Israel claims to the lands around them.
But the tendency to only view things through the lens of American imperialism and not Russian imperialism can distort the viewer. They often act like Russia is still a leftist nation instead of a hard core right wing bordering on fascist country.
Could the CIA have institured a coup in 2014 in Ukraine? I'm shocked. How about this one just revealed in the NYT great series on Haitian history:
It was Feb. 29, 2004, Before dawn, Luis Moreno, a senior American diplomat, had driven through the large gate of the president’s walled compound and climbed the steps to the front door, accompanied by security officers from the State Department. Mr. Moreno had helped Mr. Aristide return to Haiti after the military ousted him a decade earlier. Now, the opposite was happening: Mr. Moreno greeted the president — and asked for his resignation letter. Minutes later, Mr. Aristide and his wife were taken to the airport, where an American-chartered plane flew them into exile. France’s ambassador to Haiti at the time, Thierry Burkard, said in an interview that France and the United States had effectively orchestrated “a coup” against Mr. Aristide, and that his abrupt removal was “probably a bit about” his call for reparations from France, too. “It made our job easier” to dismiss the reparations claims without Mr. Aristide in office, Mr. Burkard noted. “The threats were clear and direct: ‘Either you resign, or you can be shot!’” Mr. Aristide later said of the meeting. advising him to leave office to avoid a fate like Salvador Allende’s, the Chilean president who died in 1973 as his presidential palace was overrun by the military. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/20/world/americas/haiti-aristide-reparations-france.htmlThis was only 18 years ago. How many coups can you count that we fomented? If using fingers, you need to take your shoes off. Here are a few posts from my lefty friends.
Here are recent posts from my left pals:
In February, BLM and "In This House We Believe (in everything but a rising minimum wage)" lawn signs were immediately replaced by "We Stand With Ukraine (and the Azov Battalion)" signs... which is probably just as well, since Patrice Cullours is likely to be indicted in the coming months... Advertising their moral vanity is one thing that liberals excel at...
Aaron Mate is a leading proponent, along with his partner Katie Halper on Useful Idiots. Matt Taibbi who preceded him is also a skeptic.
"Funding the Ukraine proxy war, Sanders and the Squad abandon progressives and peace" Aaron Mate
Now here is an interesting point charging the Squad with joining the usual Dem war party -- like where is Bernie pointing out how billions are spent without payfors?
American progressives join the War Party
Some leftist commentators can barely conceal their enthusiasm for American involvement in the Ukraine warUS representative Alexandra Ocasia-Cortez is among the Democratic Party members to vote in favor of a Republican sponsored Ukraine war bill. Image:
And now we finally get to the right wing pro-Putin wing:
