I've been busy so I am just catching up on the comments by Unity slugs on a bunch of topics over at the ICE blog. There's a lot of the usual intentional misinformation and explanation of democracy, Unity Caucus style.To hear you guys complain about UNITY voting in a block when your own national caucus does is hypocritical. Your so called "opposition" caucus who preaches complete individual independence will vote as a block both locally and nationally.Tell your followers how all UCORE(rank and file caucuses) voted for Randi, Michael and other UNITY candidates. Time to speak the truth... https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=15921757&postID=3121675670905590265
The slug is trying to say that our fellow caucuses in Chicago and other cities vote in a block based on their own version of a loyalty oath. Here's the slug's partial list:
UCORE is the national movement behind CORE in CTU, UP in UTLA , MORE in NY and the caucuses in power in Boston, Portland and St. Paul among othersLet's say they do vote in a block -- but the question is are they told how to vote and then punished if they don't vote the way they are told to?
In top-down Unity that is how it works. How do I know? Unity people tell me. I once even got a call from a Unity person during the meeting of the 750 before they left to the convention telling me how they were told to vote. There was not discussion of the issues or of having the caucus itself decide democratically which issues to support. Even if they voted as a block that is still more democratic than what they do now.
I might explain to the Unity slug(s) that democracy means much more than a vote. If the caucus of delegates engage in a democratic decision making process and then decide to vote as a block but allowing the leeway to vote the way they want individually that is a different kettle of fish than how Unity operates along the lines of the communist party of China.
Now did the Chicago TU engage in a debate that was bottom-up and not top-down dictation? I don't know for sure as there is conflicting info coming out of there. And if Chicago TU/CORE is not engaging in bottom-up unionizing and is morphing into a Unity-like caucus with loyalty oaths and top-down decision making then it would be going against UCORE core beliefs and would deserve to be criticized - and as more info flows in I would do so myself.
But our main point of contention is that the high school teachers voted for MORE in the election and there are no delegates to AFT and NYSUT representing them. The other unions mentioned have a lot more flexibility in their elections with room for different caucuses to win a share of elected positions including delegates.
For instance we met someone from Boston who told us they held their elections for delegates separately from officers and retirees don't vote like in the UFT where retirees don't vote for many position. If we dropped the retiree vote from the UFT election the MORE/NA % would jump from 20% to close to 30% and the teacher portion would be closer to a third. And if you add all anti-Unity vote totals in the election it comes to over 12,000 voters not represented at state and national councils.
These are the points the slugs try to avoid by throwing red herrings into the discussion.
In the Chicago union where the CORE caucus seems to be the only game in town -- no opposition ran against them in the past 2 elections - which might tell you something.
They had the right to send 150 delegates - and George and Sharon Schmidt were among them. Now if you know George he has been an open critic of Karen Lewis and some of the Chicago TU leadership. If George had been in Unity he would be purged. If he is purged from CORE due to pieces like this below then that would begin to put teeth into the Unity contention that UCORE locals are just like Unity.
George recently wrote this piece charging the CTU with taking top-down action:
It's now been more than a year since the Chicago Teachers Union's contract expired and a faction of the union leadership declared, through the words of union president Karen Lewis, that the union would continue to surrender the contractual rights of its dues-paying members on behalf of building a so-called "movement" that was never voted upon by anyone. It's now been more than a year since the Chicago Teachers Union's contract expired and a faction of the union leadership declared, through the words of union president Karen Lewis, that the union would continue to surrender the contractual rights of its dues-paying members on behalf of building a so-called "movement" that was never voted upon by anyone.http://www.substancenews.net/articles.php?page=6480§ion=Article
Yes Unity Slug(s) George was one of those delegates that you accuse of being lockstep loyalty oathers. In Unity you can get tossed for not liking Hillary's pant suits.
AFTER BURN
I do have criticisms of UCORE which met this past weekend in North Carolina - I didn't go for a few reasons not the least of which is that there seems to be no stomach in UCORE for a national battle with Randi and Unity.
30 comments:
Even worse then the whole UNITY oath is the fact that they simply shut out any and all people from other caucuses who simply want to discuss important topics at delegate meetings. When topics such as evaluations/contract negotiation items come up for "discussion" non-unity folks simply get shut out.
Yes - they don't even want to talk about anything with their own people or the opposition. If they told their clones to vote for Trump tomorrow they would.
Response to Unity Slug: It's the oath, stupid. The DNC has demonstrated how lack of democracy functions in the US these days. If we were to hold a US version of a "Brexit" vote, the results would be skewered to the outcome that the government wanted. Even John Kerry said that the outcome in the UK vote did not have to be honored.
Nothing is honored here, nothing means anything except the dollar and corporate profit. UFT aligns with corporate.
Nobody wants to fight with Randi and that is why are in the state we are in.
Abigail Shure
It's amazing you venerate a union in Chicago that is surrendering it's members rights.
So Norm, you are saying that retirees shouldn't vote even though they pay dues and many actions and positions the union takes effects them like medical coverage, prescription drugs and pensions? Not only that, but many retirees still work F status and per session jobs. You want to shut out lifetime UFT members, many who have struck for the rights you now enjoy because they don't vote the way you want? Now go ahead and call me a slug and my argument a red herring.
Your post in the Ice blog:
Blogger ed notes online said...
The best part of going to Del Ass is socializing with all our friends and sometimes hanging out for a bite or beer after. I believe the MORE/New Action Ex Bd members will try to meet up an hour before the Ex Bd meetings to coordinate on issues they might raise."
By coordinate do you mean to vote as a block? If the ex board members are "coordinating" an hour before the meeting do the rank and file have a say on what they will "coordinate" on? Doesn't sound like bottom up , free thinking does it now? Remember these are your words. Not an "anonymous" UNITY source that use always use.
"
Typical unity slug sophistry. I never said retirees shouldn't vote. Why do you guys even bother to have a cap on their votes? Like if 48000 voted instead of 24000 each would count as half a vote. You must think your own policies are wrong based on your statement above. Why don't you allow them to vote on contracts then? F status retirees too?
Since you have a cap anyway let's move the cap down to 6000 so in last election eAch vote would count a fourth instead of making up 47% of total. My position personal not caucus is for retiree vp to be voted on by them and a batch of ex bd members but no vote for divisionals. That would be a start of reform of union. Your position? Fuck you I'm a unity slug I want to maintain the status quo for another 60 years.
Even tho I've been opposed to calling for decertification it is this attitude that is moving me and others to start thinking about it.
It might be an itch now but the more people you screw the more that idea will catch on and what a joy to see you sweat. Because there comes a the when people will say better to bring chaos to the uft than continue to pay 1500 a year to keep you slugs in power.
My basic position is that you are either clueless or an asshole.
I venerate any union/ caucus that operates in a democratic manner. I am not happy with ctu coziness with Randi. And as I see signs that ctu is top down I won't venerate. But never forget the awful state of the ctu in 2010 as a legacy of old regime which played footsie with deformers and severe restrictions imposed by state and city as to what they can bargain. Most rights were surrendered already. When unity crumbles uft will be in similar situation and then you can pray for retention of any rights.
It's a dictatorship that we choose to indulge in because to do otherwise would mean to dismantle the union. Radical change requires radical action.
It's a dictatorship that we choose to indulge in because to do otherwise would mean to dismantle the union. Radical change requires radical action.
It's a dictatorship that we choose to indulge in because to do otherwise would mean to dismantle the union. Radical change requires radical action.
It's a dictatorship that we choose to indulge in because to do otherwise would mean to dismantle the union. Radical change requires radical action.
Wow. Very inappropriate comment. Does diversity of opinion mean that people have to agree with you? Regarding your response; in other words you want what you want, or else you're don't only want to play the fiddle but actually light the match! And when you get out debated on your own blog your final response is to use epithets? That's the last defense of someone who knows they don't have a strong argument. Finally it is beneath the dignity of a person as well respected as yourself to issue threats and curses. Please apologize so this debate may continue in a civil manner.
And by the way it wasn't a "Unity slug" who went ballistic. It was you and the other Moresheviks who lost their minds, threatened decertification and cursed. You like to get things cooking with your blog but it does not seem like you can stand the heat in your own kitchen.
You admit that Core is now an establishment party, that Karen Lewis said in your quote that the union would continue to surrender the contractual rights of its dues-paying members on behalf of building a so-called "movement" that was never voted upon by anyone. She used the word continue. She's held power for 6 years and tells people that they will continue to surrender their contractual rights to organize? If Mulgrew ever said anything close to that you would already be in fire and brimstone mode. And you admire them and want the UFT to emulate that? That does not speak to a model that the membership here would want. And oh, by the way, she's doing this without putting it to a vote. That's very democratic! Where is your outrage now?
Here's another quote from Chicago (thanks for the link Norm)... it tells us what to expect from the Moresheviks if they get elected like in Chicago.. And as the new school year looms, the Chicago Teachers Unions official website doesn't even include all of the resolutions the the union's 800-member House of Delegates have voted to approve, many after serious debate. Nor can the union's members find complete reports on the monthly meetings of the most democratic body in Chicago's public schools, the CTU House of Delegates. The "talk" is all about democracy and so-called "transparency." The "walk," though, has been in the opposite direction for a long time. That is anti democratic and hypocritical. They care about their own power not their membership. People should know that's what they will be able to expect if More gets elected here. For the sake of our membership I hope that none of your erst while "democratic unionist" pals never get elected.
I realize the substance of his quote isn't the point of your piece here, but I just wanted to say that George Schmidt may well be the smartest guy in the CTU.
I can call you an asshole if I wAnt to. Go start your own blog and feel free to call me what you want. Why are you an asshole? Because you raise issue after issue and even when I try to reply seriously you ignore my response and try to nit pick on something else. You are not to be taken seriously - just another unity slug looking to defend your perks.
I'll take any insult from you as a complement. I fundamentally disagree with you and your caucusmates. Your ideas are flawed, your role models are hypocrites, and your friends have radical, and dangerous ideas that will hurt many, many people. If you can't handle these comments maybe you should not have a blog. By the way George Schmidt wrote something in May about a total top down way of handling their delegate assembly and resolutions. No debate, just orders on what they were being told to do. And it seems lie their are financial disclosure questions as well. And you want New York to be more like that? No thank you. Here is the link... http://www.substancenews.net/articles.php?page=6316§ion=Article
I don't have to accept comments at all so consider yourself lucky I allow you a platform while you hide behind anon. The fact you waste your time reading and commenting on a blog you dislike and trolling around so you can make niggling little comments that few people read is a sign you have too much time on your hands. You need to spend more time reading the unity blog.
I can't sleep and you guys are very entertaining!
"My basic position is that you are either clueless or an asshole."
Nice. I take this as you have lost the debate. Doubt you'll post this as you have already threatened not to post divergent opinions. Might be time to hang it up. LOL
I always post divergent positions even those of an asshole. There is no debate since you just change the subject every time I give you a rational response -- like the retiree issue - so go on to something else. In fact I posted the George Schmidt piece crit the CTU on ed notes as I did a year and a half ago when George was critical of the way they endorsed the guy for mayor. But noting the CTU or the UTLA or any UCORE group does can in any way compare to the Unity Slug machine. And the Queens Borough office is still the worst in the city - more SLUGGISH than any other.
They never stick to the topic bc they don't have the stomach for real debate. You really get under their skin, Norm bc you're untethered...free to just speak your mind without checking in with some scumbag union leader like Mlgrew. They do whatever Mulgrew tells them to do. They have no free will and that's why they resent you. Deep down they wish they had the balls to be you. In other words...they hate you for your freedom. Roseanne
Thanks Roseanne. Note how this slime tries to make it seem more is just like unity with loyalty oaths - as if indeoendent and free people like us would ever be part of that. they have no free will but are lemmings who will follow their leaders off the cliff.
Hey Roseanne, are you still voting for Trump?
If Randi told you to switch your vote to trump you would walk off that cliff with all the other lemmings.
Summer vacation has eased my bad mood and I'm considering Jill Stein or Johnson but rest assured I'm voting against Hilary. You still voting the way Mulgrew and Randi tell you to? You would all be at a Trump rally if Mulgrew told you to get on the bus. I decide who and what I support. I removed Unity's loyalty oath blinders and handcuffs many moons ago once I recognized they worked against the working teacher and stood for nothing more than protecting their self interests....just like Hilary the corporate whore Clinton. Roseanne
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