Thursday, April 28, 2016

POTUS16: On Elections and Political Parties - Part 1

I want to do a series of posts exploring where we might be going with the Bernie and Trump movements vis a vis the current 2 party Republican and Democratic Parties which have both drifted way right of where they were - like Hillary and Obama are to the right of Nixon.

The so-called "left" actually has a lot of wings - and at times I feel I have touched base with all of them - just within MORE I've seen a wide range of the left - or to use a broader more inclusive term - "progressives." I think a dividing line is whether one is anti-capitalist or reform capitalism drastically left - the latter is where Bernie Sanders seems to be coming from. The social democrats which is where I put myself.

The idea of a viable party of the left with deep roots might have some legs given the post-election landscape. I posted about this sort of Occupy/Bernie follow-up in Chicago: It Won't Be Over Even if Hillary is Nominee.

It is one thing to become a sort of lobby group. Some people might imagine using the super fund raising ability of Bernie people to fuel such left wing lobby group, which I think is a dead end.

What is needed is a political party of sorts though I can't imagine what that might look like at this point.

Meanwhile there is a war of sorts between our allies over whether to vote for Hillary or not, with even some of our allies seeing Trump as a better alternative to her - especially from teachers outraged by the neo-liberal assault on education and the role Randi and Hillary have played in it - check some of the comments on this blog and I even met at least a few people at the NPE of all places who said they would vote Trump over Hillary. Their thinking was that Hillary will be more of the same while a Trump victory would discredit the neo-liberal, war hawk wing of the Democratic Party - and Randi too and he would be so outrageous that would either move the Democrats to the left or lead to a split in the party and maybe even a split in the Republican Party too.

I am meeting too many people who say Bernie is their first choice and Trump their 2nd. Something is resonating.

I will explore the possibilities based on either outcome in follow-ups.

There are 3 options out there for Bernie people.
Vote for Hillary
Vote 3rd Party
and I know this will drive people crazy - vote for Trump -

Arthur Goldstein at NYC Educator will not vote for Hillary or Trump: Hillary's Haters
Mr. Talk returns to blogging with his reasons why we must vote for Hillary:
As Bernie's Ship Sinks, Please Don't Pull the Rest of Us Down With You

Mr. Talk argues against Arthur's 3rd party vote even in Blue states because he feels Hillary need to be elected with a mandate. Like Obama in 2012? That did a lot of good. I think given Hillary's neo-liberalism a mandate for her would justify those policies and any educator who has seen the assault of  neo-liberalism must take that into account. If you have doubts about Hillary my follow-ups will include proof that Hillary in substance is a middle of the road Republican. 


  1. If you are "meeting too many people" who will vote for Trump, I think you should take stock of the kind of places you are frequenting. Hopefully, they are just venting over Bernie's loss. How rare is the priviledge of voting in a general election for a candidate that we just adore? Isn't it always a compromise, or a nose-hold?

    1. I'm talking about Bernie supporters not my relatives.

    2. Maybe it's always a nose hold or a compromise bc the dems know it'll always be a nose hold or a compromise that results in a vote for a democrat....but what if they get it wrong this time? What if we hold our nose and vote for Trump? For the first time since I naively voted for Ronald Reagan at the age of 19 in 1984, I will be voting for the republican presidential candidate. After 1984 I voted democrat until I voted Green Party in 2012. But by 2016 my hatred for the Democratic Party (Obama and his RTT, Cuomo! and Hilary), has deep roots and I will now vote republican regardless of who it is until the democrats earn my vote back. My assemblyman whose record I approve of is the only democrat I have voted for since 2008. Hilary is a pro war corporate whore. And if that's the best the dems can present to me on election day then I'm going republican. At least they tell me upfront that they're going to f%#k me and 99% of the things I care about. Hilary, like Obama, is the handsome charming guy who promises you wine and roses and then slips you a roofie. Roseanne McCosh

    3. In other words, you've returned to the naivete of your youth.

  2. I agree with Norm.
    Everyone, everyone I know will vote for Trump. Some are Bernie supporters and some just love Trump.
    The reason Hillary won't get many of Bernie's supporters is they don't want an establishment candidate. They may turn to Trump.

  3. My favorite line about the appeal of Trump is that "he's a walking, talking thumb in the eye of the (party) elite". Who else could have taken down 100 million dollar Jeb? I'll be voting for Jill Stein and my assemblyperson, but not for any other incumbents. It's fun to watch Trump, he's an underdog, but still a winner- it's hard not to root for him.
    Another point, Bernie said that Hillary would have to win over his supporters, he couldn't just tell them what to do. That reminded me so much of when Karen Lewis said her members needed a day to read the contract before they voted on it. What respect for the membership!

  4. Before u predict a Trump victory, heed Norms wisdom about intuitive pole taking. MORE supporters will be convinced of victory heading into election because "everyone " they talk to is voting for MORE. We tend to associate with a narrow slice of the ideological demographic. I'm scared of Trump's allure, but the smart money's on Hillary.

    1. Good point about inexperienced more supporters. No matter how hard I try to convince them they find it hard to believe when the numbers come up. They certainly are shocked at the low vote totals since everyone in their school told them they voted. No they didn't I tell them after the election. You assumed they did. Clearly most more people didn't do a Gotv campaign in their school and even if they did it might not make that much of a difference since so many people in general and especially union elections don't give a crap.

  5. I agree with Roseanne.

    The democrats have been leaning so much to the right when it comes to policies that hurt the working class, public school system and the educators that I sometimes think they're truly republicans but are afraid to show their true party colors. Look at all the freaking Heavy Hearts in Albany who are dems and voted for a budget that was tied to a horrific teacher evaluation and has not stopped the testing mania. I can't tell you how disgusted I am with the dems. Another career political criminal,Shelly Silver, who's a dem just got sentenced to 12 years and he's not the only the only former political dem in prison. I think it's time to change my party affiliation to Independent because the democratic party train is off it's track.

    So people rather hold their nose. Go right a head because our country go through some form of devastation either death by hanging (Trump) or death by poison (Hillary). I will hold to true to being a Bernie Support.

    So here's I plan to vote in November:
    If Bernie is nominated, yippee then he's a clear winner.
    If Hillary is nominated (got nauseous), then I'll write in Bernie's name.
    If there's no write in, then I'll vote for the Green Party.
    If there's no Green Party on the ballot, then I won't vote. And it will be the first time in a very, very, very long time that I sit home.

    This is the year where I finally see that not only is our government is being controlled by the power of money but our union is nothing more than a spineless vehicle for the deformers. That seat at the table bullshit that not sway me anymore because the union's complicity with the deformers is obvious that our union leaders bring their own seat to the table. How many members will wake up to the BOLD TRUTH of this travesty by the powers to be not wanting to help the working class nor the educators in the nation.


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